HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Blogs
Captain Hybrid

Toyota's FCV Fuel Cell Sedan -- First Look

NO RATINGS
View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
Page 1/3  >  >>
CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Look on the bright side.
CharlesM   7/17/2014 3:20:08 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks for your kind and detailed response. I certainly don't feel offended. Also thanks for acknowledging the ineffectiveness of "individual responsibility" as a strategy. It sounds good to say, but it doesn't solve problems. It's also sufficiently vague that it's not known whether the proponent believes in any rules or regulations at all. Is it just a personal thing and the penalty for not being responsible comes only at the expense to the individual? Unfortunately, behaviors of some too often affect others, a lot of others. Boundaries and penalties are needed when other people's liberties stomp on yours. That's really where we are.

As lost as legislators seem to be, for every Prop 65 there are plenty of examples of problems that have been responded to in more effective and appropriate ways, with long term results that can be clearly gauged as such, even if they don't always get addressed in a manner engineers would call efficient. The engineering solution is often not consistent with human nature and interaction. Democracy, it's been said, is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

At least many so-called conservatives (and I'm not judging where you fit relative to that scale) used to claim support for the principle of so-called states' rights, in part as small test beds for various ideas and solutions to regional problems. For all its share of problems, I don't see the destruction of California at the hands of its legislature. If you live there, as I once did, know that we have our own problems elsewhere and that many things are just better out there. Come down south if you really want to see government pander to "follow public perception over actual scientific proven conclusions"!

Anyway, I'd be interested if you have any more specific strategies to addressing air pollution, if California is not going about it correctly. 

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Look on the bright side.
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   7/17/2014 12:31:13 PM
NO RATINGS
@CharlesM – (Sorry this response was not sooner; I've been travelling): One representative example of my disdain for California legislators is the common warnings which they mandate must be posted on products, per the 30 year-old Proposition 65: "This product contains substances that are found to cause cancer in the State of California." While I concede that Proposition 65 started out with the purist intentions, only to guarantee safe drinking water (probably much like your sincere feelings about air pollution, I assume), it mutated into a monster regulatory machine, condemning everything from soft-drinks to motor oil. The bottom line of its current existence is that Proposition 65 mandates warnings in CA on hundreds of products and substances while the other 49 states don't seem to share the concerns. 

Accordingly, I believe the California legislature tends to follow popular public perception, over actual scientific proven conclusions.

You are obviously a very refined and well-written individual and I respect you for that; however the multiple issues you have touched-on; ---on regulations, legislation, taxation, etc., have each taken a position so very far away from my values and beliefs, that if we were to discuss them here, we would banter over a Pandora's Box that may never close. 

My strongest belief is in Individual responsibility.  That applies to people and companies.   I don't want the legislature to waste precious time debating things they don't understand to try to mandate the way others should live. I believe people ought to have the strength and integrity to always do the right thing. 

But to your point, few ever do; and thus the quagmire of legislation to save us from ourselves. Unfortunately, the legislators are more often just as lost as the people they are trying to direct.

Hope you understand without feeling offended.


CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Look on the bright side.
CharlesM   7/11/2014 11:14:06 AM
NO RATINGS
I give you high marks for calling-out their continuously overzealous perspectives based on public perception, vs reality. 

JimT, I'm curious what you think the "public perception vs reality" means relative to "environmentalists and Californian legislators." Maybe that's just a rhetorical question, but seriously what do you think the California state ledg should be doing about air pollution?

One does not have to agree it is "fair" (whatever that means), but if you want to best ensure vast changes across society, legislative mandates are very effective and historically have not hurt economies. With regard to air pollution regulations, legislation is responsible for virtually all of the improvements both federal and state, for both electrical grid and transportation sectors. It's even a boon to jobs to have to solve problems, manufacture new systems, and upgrade power plants. Also with respect to efficiency, CAFE standards have been extremely effective and today's vehicles are at the highest performance ever. Today's 4-cylinder Camrys have more power than the muscle V-8s of the sixties.

And where would product safety be without your favorite body of people? Car safety, just to start with. Government also had a huge if not nearly exclusive role in bringing down smoking rates. Has that been a bust for you? The list of examples is endless.

With regard to Battar's comment about EU taxes, I wonder how many commenters here agree that we should just do what Europe is doing. Even I'm not down with that, though why would anyone not support a carbon tax? We could eliminate other subsidies, clean fuel and fossil alike. Who would be OK with that as a substitute for zero emission car mandates and subsidies?

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Look on the bright side.
Charles Murray   7/3/2014 2:59:18 PM
NO RATINGS
All they want is awareness, JimT. And they got it...through publications like ours.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Look on the bright side.
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   7/3/2014 12:28:35 PM
NO RATINGS
I'm not sure I really get the point of an "Exterior-Reveal" in the attempt to announce the "drive" technology.  Is there some link between the exterior styling and the inner force of propulsion-?  It may just as well been a Squirrel-Cage under the hood! – What am I missing-?

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: How heavy
patb2009   7/3/2014 1:26:18 AM
NO RATINGS
The good thing about Electric vehicles is we have a lot of data the last 10 years.

 

Tesla has sold almost 500,00 cars and between Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf,

and a half dozen other manufacturers plus the million of hybrids there is a decent database of cars for Electrics.

 

Now Hydrogen, i suspect will never get to this point.

 

I think Hydrogen is in the position Electric cars were in the 70's, way out ahead of the technology and way out ahead of the infra-structure.

 

Once battery gets below $200/KWH, there will be no reason to not go electric and the Hydrogen cars will lose any hope of market share.

 

as for relative safety, i see two major problems fire and pressure bottle failure, neither of which is very tractable.

 

Lithium batteries will be moving to li-S, you can shoot a bullet through those.

 

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Look on the bright side.
Charles Murray   7/2/2014 6:26:19 PM
NO RATINGS
Unfortunately, technical details are scarce at this point, JimT. Because the intro was in Japan, we viewed the presentation on line, and it was described by Toyota as an "exterior reveal." We won't know the real details of this system until 2015.

Battar
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Look on the bright side.
Battar   7/2/2014 2:39:42 PM
NO RATINGS
Jim,

        I find the Edison power infrastructure analogy very apt, as Edison never did manage to gain acceptance for his DC generation methods. Teslas' far more efficient method of 3 phase AC distribution became the world standard.

The EU method of improving air quality is simply to tax fuel and so encourage the ownership of smaller, more economical cars. No sense in driving a fuel cell or EV sedan with a bumper sticker reading "my other car is a Ford F-150".

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Look on the bright side.
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   7/2/2014 1:17:41 PM
NO RATINGS
Battar;  It would appear as if CharlesM and I are polar opposites.  Your last sentence, "environmentalists and Californian legislators do not often enjoy such an unimpeded view of reality..." is pure gold, and I give you high marks for calling-out their continuously overzealous perspectives based on public perception, vs reality.  I'm embarrassed, however, to be categorized similarly to the California legislative body. Shame on me for not being more specific.

Getting back to the point, I made the encouraging comments because I always encourage new innovation. Especially positive, was the statement that the system re-charges in 3 minutes.  New technologies spawn new industries and there are countless hurdles to overcome. But it's a start. 

Imagine the bittersweet euphoria which Edison must have felt as soon as he discovered the filament burns continuously in a vacuum; only to quickly realize he was going to have to create a massive infrastructure to route electricity into homes.  Not to mention to have to build plants to generate it. 

Yes, FCV's will have a slow timeline.  But it's a start.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Look on the bright side.
CharlesM   7/2/2014 9:13:56 AM
NO RATINGS
Battar, I was in agreement till your last sentence. What environmentalist would like an FCV that is far more fossil fuel intensive than a comparable gasoline vehicle, let alone compared to a hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or a BEV? As for "Californian legislators," they are legislators, after all. But maybe they're helping engineers by giving us the job you define by having us fix and improve the energy sector.  California is a leader in reducing fossil fuel use and in lowering per capita energy consumption, while it's also such a huge economy. And they have severe air quality problems that require drastic measures.  

Besides not allowing FCVs to use fossil fuels to extract hydrogen, which they're probably not doing, what should they be doing to address California's air quality?

Page 1/3  >  >>
Partner Zone
More Blogs from Captain Hybrid
Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio Marchionne has again committed the colossal sin of speaking plainly, and electric vehicle advocates aren’t happy about it.
Electric vehicle batteries are progressing rapidly, but there’s still no sign on the horizon that the technology is going to revolutionize the auto industry anytime soon, experts said at The Battery Show in Detroit last week.
An engineering team from Ohio State University has set its sights on the unimaginable -- driving 400 mph in an electric vehicle.
We’ve collected photos of electric cars, designed for both the neighborhood blacktop and the commercial dragstrip. From the Crazyhorse Pinto and the Killacycle motorcycle to the Tesla Roadster and the 500-HP Renovo Coupe, we offer a peek at the blistering performance of the electric powertrain.
Tesla Motors might be planning to boost the driving range of its two-seat Roadster to 400 miles.
Design News Webinar Series
10/7/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
9/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
9/10/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/23/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Nov 3 - 7, Engineering Principles behind Advanced User Interface Technologies
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Last Archived Class
Sponsored by Littelfuse
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service