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Tesla's Gigafactory Would Bring Us Closer to Reality

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LetoAtreidesII
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Platinum
Re: Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
LetoAtreidesII   3/20/2014 4:53:59 PM
"I don't necessarily disagree we should have fewer subsidies, but don't forget that most of our energy and research is subsidized - even relatively mature and profitable industries such as oil and nuclear or ethanol.  Much of it indirectly as tax exemptions and rebates, government research, price controls, trade restrictions, etc."

This is the lie when people complain about big oil getting goverment money is is the standard tax credit for R&D, equipment ivestment and the like.

When we talk about EV we are talking about massive grants, O.00 Interest loans, Free Tax for X yrs.  All this is on top of the standard business credits we all get for R&D and investment.   Hands down it is not contest.

Trenth
User Rank
Gold
Re: Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
Trenth   3/20/2014 3:45:09 PM
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Gas cars only exist because of gov subsidies and protection.

 

We build the roads for them, we go to ware for the oil, we do the research for fracking, and extraction methods, and give giant tax breaks to the oil companies.

 

The fossil industry has gotten those essential gov breaks for nearly 100 years.

 

 

please get some perspective.  

imagineer1000
User Rank
Silver
More information...
imagineer1000   3/20/2014 1:55:12 PM
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When you say $20k, are you implying you could produce the rest of the car for $20k - $16k = $4k?  That sounds pretty low.  If that really is the case, if you reduced the battery pack for a 100 mi range the car would only cost $12k???  If it wasn't as ugly as the Nissan Leaf, I suspect a LOT of people would buy it as a second car.  Or if you were poor - as a first car.

imagineer1000
User Rank
Silver
Re: Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
imagineer1000   3/20/2014 1:47:31 PM
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I don't necessarily disagree we should have fewer subsidies, but don't forget that most of our energy and research is subsidized - even relatively mature and profitable industries such as oil and nuclear or ethanol.  Much of it indirectly as tax exemptions and rebates, government research, price controls, trade restrictions, etc. Letting the marketplace decide what works would be fine if companies took a longer term view of profits, and it was possible to assign the total cost of damages to a producer. 

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
LetoAtreidesII   3/20/2014 1:05:59 PM
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William, I agree they may work in a energy storeage or even HEVs,  My big probelm is that this is done as a way to get more goverment grants loans (again our money without us getting product).

Maybe i am old fashion but I think Telsa should put their own money into this if they think it will work and then they will either stand or fall base upon whether they can make it work. 

 

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
William K.   3/20/2014 12:10:29 PM
I also question the wisdom in producing a huge factory to make batteries for cars that folks are not buying. Something smells funny about whatever words are being used to gain investors, since the smarter investors go by more than emotional choices.

BUT perhaps the same batteries would also be useful as energy storage systems for wind, solar, and other forms of power generation, in which case it may be a good choice. But presently the future is a bit hard to predict, as to wether logic and wisdom, or hysterical emotions, will prevail in shaping our path.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Consumer adoption
William K.   3/20/2014 12:05:19 PM
Jim is certainly correct! What would be quite acceptable would be a hybrid vehicle, with either a gas engine or a CNG or propane fueld engine as both backup and boost power source. The main motivation is the reality that excessive discharge tends to destroy a lithium battery pack, and with a replacement costing more than a new engine that is an event to be avoided. And still no attention is given to the large range reductions brought about by using either an electric heater or air conditioning.

So would I pay $20K for a second vehicle? If it were a hybrid of some sort, probably, if it was a pure electric vehicle with a $10,000 battery pack, NO. Running out of gas is inconvenient but it does no real damage. Running out of battery would be expensive.

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Really, Telsa only exists now because of goverment hand outs
LetoAtreidesII   3/20/2014 12:04:58 PM
Pinning hopes on Tesla is a joke.  The company only exists because of big goverment money (our Money) from his buddies in DC and Sacramento.  Even today it looses money on it car production and only creates a profit because of goverment credits (again our money) see LA time article

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/05/business/la-fi-electric-cars-20130506

And all of this for a overpriced sports car coming in at 80K.  This cannot and will not continue.  Ca is broke and so is DC giving money to these companies will soon dry up and then the whole house of EVs will collapse

Pure EV's are just not that practical at the moment even if battery costs can be reduced.  Now the Hybrid that is a different story.  I dont have one because they are mainly small vechiles at the moment and I am still 8 yrs out from buying another vechile.  I do a 12yr cycle.  I buy new and squeeze all I can out of it typically 12yrs in the snowy salty north.

 

 

 

 

 

Jim_E
User Rank
Platinum
Consumer adoption
Jim_E   3/20/2014 11:39:17 AM
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It seems like I should be an ideal candidate for an electric car, since I'm a gEEky engineer with a mere eight or so mile round trip daily commute.  But, I really don't have any interest in owning a straight electric car.

The whole idea of the thing running out of charge and not having a way to remotely quick charge it (like a gas can) gives me the creeps.  I suppose as a third car that I only drove to work, it would be fine, but for that purpose, I couldn't justify spending barely any money for it.

Gasoline sure is convenient and has a nice existing infrastructure.

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