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Captain Hybrid

Slideshow: Why California Matters to the EV Market

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naperlou
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Blogger
fuel economy standards are the way to go
naperlou   2/25/2014 11:24:53 AM
Cap'n, this is the second time California has done this.  Remember the first electric vehicle mandate?


In the Wall Street Journal today there is an article about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.  You have also written about them.  I assume that they would meet the zero emisson mandate.  One thing about fuel cell vehicles that would mitigate range anxiety is that you could have a hydrogen refuelling truck that could be called if you run out.  With electrics, there is no real option for changing batteries in the field.  That could change, but that is a complete redesign and the truck will never be as simple as a refuelling truck.

All of this is silly, of course, if people do not buy.  The real answer is to set targets and let the market decide.  I would rather see the CAFE standards, which have a real impact.  There are about 255M registered passenger vehicles in the US.  You mention in your article a goal of 3.3M electric vehicles in 2025.  Assuming the number of vehicles are flat in that time, that is about 1.33% of vehicles with zero emissions.  If you cut fuel use by the fleet by 2%, you would have a bigger impact.  In addition, the reality is that these zero emission vehicles are not really zero emission.  The electricity had to come from somewhere, and most of that burns fossil fuels. 

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
Charles Murray   2/25/2014 12:08:33 PM
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Yes, naperlou, fuel cells would meet the zero-emission mandate. California is giving seven credits per car to Honda's FCX fuel cell vehicles, whereas the Nissan Leaf only gets three per car delivered. The question is, how many fuel cell vehicles will actually be sold?

far911
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Silver
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
far911   2/26/2014 7:18:35 AM
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Is it , i really believed that Nissan Leaf is ahead of other vehicles.

mr88cet
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Silver
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
mr88cet   2/26/2014 9:16:09 AM
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Yeah, I'm kinda surprised that, at very approximately 3X the price, the Tesla Model S has sold nearly the same as the Nissan Leaf.  Then again, ~3X range for the Tesla, and Tesla has quite a few 35-minute, 80%-charge stations at strategic places around the country.  That, plus whoever designed the styling of the Leaf's body must have been on drugs or something...

RogueMoon
User Rank
Platinum
California infrastructure woes
RogueMoon   2/26/2014 9:29:47 AM
Some California laws are full of wishful thinking. The realities of what infrastructure can be afforded and deployed in time to support a massive EV fleet on the roads will likely rein this thinking.  California is having a hard enough time getting the high-speed rail project.  Now they want to have an EV rapid-charging station on every block?  This is what it will take to make a limited range EV work for drivers.  It's not range anxiety, it's just being practical about what an EV can and can't do.

It's pretty clever using the cap-and-trade approach forcing major automakers to fork over $ to Tesla and any other EV maker (if there is one?).  This keeps Tesla in business for making a product that isnt selling big numbers.   If the pressure gets too high and their taking too many losses on EV's that aren't selling, major automakers will simply offer fewer vehicles for sale in CA and people will have to buy them second-hand or go to NV or AZ.   The AZ auto dealers are in for some brisk sales in a few years!

ChriSharek
User Rank
Gold
CA leading the Charge!
ChriSharek   2/26/2014 9:45:02 AM
Being a native Floridian, I hate when California beats us at ANYTHING!  but, they don't have much of a choice with their air pollution issues.

Other than the Model S, the Volt is the most practical and best looking vehicle of the bunch - no wonder it sold more than anyone! 

ChriSharek
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Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
ChriSharek   2/26/2014 9:46:45 AM
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@far911:  Ask any Leaf owner in Florida - air cooled lithium ion batteries aren't cutting it!  Unless this design flaw is changed, they are on a path that leads to a reduced battery life as well as performance (range). 

ChriSharek
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Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
ChriSharek   2/26/2014 9:48:55 AM
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@naperlou:  AAA is already offering an emergency charge if your EV runs out.  No need to change the battery.  If Tesla can install solar chargers that charge to 80% in a 1/2 hour, certainly the technology exists.  No need for battery swapping in the field.

ChriSharek
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Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
ChriSharek   2/26/2014 9:49:54 AM
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I agree with you completely.  The S is gorgeous; the Leaf looks buck-toothed.

ChriSharek
User Rank
Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
ChriSharek   2/26/2014 9:52:59 AM
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@Charles Murray - Thanks again for all that you do and these articles.

I would argue that fuel cells are only changing the fuel we'll need to use - so we pump hydrogen instead of gasoline.  We'd need to retrofit our entire pumping infractructure across the globe and somehow in conjunction with the adoption of these vehicles.  That will NEVER work. 

And the fuel cells do nothing but create electricity anyway!  Why not just rely on the existing infrastructure that exists in our homes, at our work, and everywhere!  Electricity is simply the most cost effective alternative that can be deployed NOW! 

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