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Auto Execs: Plug-In Hybrids Will Soar, Pure EVs Decline

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Rigby5
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Platinum
Re: Plug-In Hybrids Will Soar, Pure EVs Decline
Rigby5   2/11/2013 3:24:55 PM
No, it is hybrids that make no sense in the long run.

Hybrids suffer double the weight and complexity of an internal combustion engine, and are probably triple the weight and complexity of an EV.  They have no future once gasoline is too expensive and enough EVs are purchaed to give them similar economy of scale.

It is true you can't run heat and cooling off the batteries, but no one with any sense would ever have done that.  The standard means of accomplishing those tasks in the real world are not electric, but with liquids.  For heat, all one has to do is adapt a mountain climbing catalytic heater that runs on tiny amount alcohol.  For cooling, most of the world relies on water evaporation, as in the common swamp cooler.  Neither are heavy, complex, or expensive.

Nor is there any reason for EVs to be constrained to short commutes.  Two easy alternatives would be to rent generator trailers or develop battery swap stations as sort of a club membership. 

These are not at all difficult problems to overcome, if one really wants to.  But I would guess the real problem is that the oil industry, as well as the automotive industry, simply do not WANT to over come these little problems, because they don't want to make EVs.  Event the Chevy Volt clearly indicates a lack of interest, because it is about 3 times heavier than it needs to be or should be.

Rigby5
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Plug-In Hybrids
Rigby5   2/11/2013 3:13:21 PM
NO RATINGS
To Watashi,
The reason to convert to LNG is that the US has far more natural gas resource than we have oil.  We either have to import or convert to LNG.

But LNG is far more efficient because it is already a gas at ambient temperatures, and does not leave unburned carbon residue like gasoline.
It does have less power however, because it has less density.  That can be overcome with higher compression ratios, a turbo charger, or a super charger.

LNG does not wear engines faster.  In fact they last more than 4 times longer.  That is because the combustion temperature is lower, and there is no carbon to foul the valve seat.  Valves are not lubricated by liquid gasoline, but by additives, which have not been necessary since 1975, when all valves and valve guides were made harder.  Shorter lifespans indicate excessively lean mixture, not anything inherent with LNG.  LNG trials on commercial fleets show LNG to be vastly superior as far a engine longevity.

shrimper53
User Rank
Gold
Re: Plug-In Hybrids Will Soar, Pure EVs Decline
shrimper53   2/11/2013 12:52:46 PM
I so agree.

THe REPORTING on the study is almost more revealing that the study itself.  It does highlight the pervasive dishonesty in the media when it comes to this subject.  Selective reporting of figures and manipulation of data to give a false impression just shows the agenda (leftist liberal environmentalism) must be advanced.

Excellent article, Charles. 

jhankwitz
User Rank
Platinum
Plug-In Hybrids Will Soar, Pure EVs Decline
jhankwitz   2/11/2013 10:40:07 AM
This article is somewhat of a no brainer. Almost all pure EVs live in California because of their outrageous regulations. In most parts of the country, we all have very hot and very cold days. Running heat and air conditioning off a battery simply isn't practical since they can use far more power than the actual driving. Government Motors saw this when they modified the Volt to be a plug-in hybrid. The engine is great for providing heat in the winter and extra power for air conditioning in the summer.

I make one-day trips from Chicago to Boston several times a year in my Prius with the cabin temperature set at 68, the speed set at 75, and get a consistent 47 - 49 MPG. You simply can't do that using a pure EV. There's no way I'm going to purchase another expensive care dedicated to short commutes. The pure EV was doomed from the start.  Automakers create them only to appear 'politically correct' to satisfy the environmentalists who are very unlikely ever going to purchase one of them.

 

GTOlover
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Platinum
Re: Plug-In Hybrids
GTOlover   2/11/2013 10:20:05 AM
akwaman
User Rank
Gold
Re: EV vs PHEV
akwaman   2/11/2013 10:19:56 AM
 

I totally agree that Pruis technology does not seem to be keeping up with the other plug-in hybrids, it is actually kind of disiappointing.  I don't believe owning a Prius has is stupid at all, unless you are buying new.  My Prius has saved me a ton of money, and is a great car, but to look at the new cars and technology coming out, the Prius pales in comparison to other PHEVs.  There are some great hybrid, plug-ins and electrics coming out now that deserve consideration.

It would be unwise to buy a Chevy Volt unless you have a substantial commute.  A 2 mile drive to work would make a Volt a poor choice, unless cost was not the driving factor.  The gasoline savings would never compensate for the increased cost, longer commutes make a Volt a great choice.  

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Driving habits
GTOlover   2/11/2013 10:18:09 AM
I do not disagree with you. A hybrid is on my radar. Just have to have the financial capital to get it (soon).

By the way, that 45 year old car, I wish it was a GTO. It is the cheap version, 6 cylinder Tempest. So my monikor is only a wish at this time. Even trying to race this thing is slow, so I opt to get the most out of MPG.

Close Charles, it is a 1968 Tempest. Looks good, but is not the fast car that is embodied in the GTO. I guess old age has tempered my desire but not my imagination.

My point is that car manufacturers continue to squeeze everything they can out of the cars we drive. At some point in the future, the technology changes (my preference), or the manufacturers take over the driving to optimize MPG of the vehicle for the owner (not prefered).

Watashi
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Plug-In Hybrids
Watashi   2/11/2013 10:11:06 AM
Propane and Natural Gas have been around since the 70's - 80's.  A couple local farmers had their pickup trucks converted for it when I was young.  Both reported far less efficiency and power.  Couple that with a lack of refueling stations in town and they really regreted the decision. 

I'm not sure why they did it to begin with.  I think it might have been a Carter era tax write-off coupled with the fact that they could refuel in the field, as most of their irrigation wells ran on NG.

Fortunately (sort of), the engines burnt-out fairly quickly (>100K) due to lack of lubrication from liquid gasoline.  Newer engines have come a long ways to fix the value burning issue, but you just can't get around the lack of efficiency.  Just like diluting gas with Ethanol; you reduce the energy density and it with take more fuel to the work.

ChriSharek
User Rank
Gold
Re: EV vs PHEV
ChriSharek   2/11/2013 10:05:09 AM
NO RATINGS
The Plug-in Prius is a joke.  My 3 year old technology Volt goes 40 miles on a charge, was eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, and looks and drives WAY better than a Prius.  Anyone that continues to ride the Prius wave calling themselves green is either ignorant or just plain stupid. 

akwaman
User Rank
Gold
Re: Driving habits
akwaman   2/11/2013 10:04:18 AM
NO RATINGS
I think my point was... that you don't have to sacrifice speed to get great gas mileage from a hybrid.  Obviously, driving really fast is not the way to optimize mpg.  I was simply pointing out that hybrids don't suffer as much from bad driving habits as one would guess (barely getting 30mpg is a guess).  It is not a guess that any hybrid driven in any manner would yield FAR better mileage than a GTO driven with the lightest foot.  We all know that driving a GTO is all about optimizing mpg.  Remember back in the Carter years when the speed limit was lowered to 60 mph?  That was to save millions of gallons of gas, because old ICE tech got worse gas mileage with every MPH over ~60mph.  With a GTO, you are either racing (while watching the gas guage move in real time), or treating the gas pedal like you have an egg under the pedal.  GTOlover, (depending on the length of commute) you could buy a hybrid or electric, and the savings in gas each month would probably cover the entire cost of the car.  It's a real shame to have a car that cool (GTO) and have to drive 60mph all the time.

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