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Captain Hybrid

Global Warming: Are the Skeptics Right?

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GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Wow active thread being revived
GTOlover   7/30/2013 1:41:08 PM
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478 comments! I that a record?

irishmuse
User Rank
Silver
Re: GLOBAL WARMING
irishmuse   7/30/2013 12:26:46 PM
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Response to Stuart21   6/12/2013 1:13:00 PM

The reason being is that AGW is inevitable  REALLY? PROVE IT

CO2 up 43% already AGAIN, PROVE IT (and pay attention to data collection methods, accuaracy, and calibation)

probably 100% within 50 years BASED ON WHAT?

and when AGW finally does kick in, SO IT HAS NOT "KICKED IN"?

Why should the position of so many be 'we must be absolutely sure that a train is coming and it will run over and kill our kids' before we say 'hey kids, don't play on the train line'?  ANOTHER EMOTIONAL ARGUMENT EQUIVALENT TO "WHY ARE YOU KILLING MY KIDS!"

NOTE THAT I NEVER SAY THERE IS NO CLIMATE CHANGE, OR THERE IS NO IMPACT FORM CO2.  BUT I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF REDUCING WORLDWIDE GDP BY SIPHONING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO CO2 REDUCTION BASED ON  EMOTION.

THE DATA FOR YOUR "up 43% already" IS POOR AND THE MANIPULATION ARBITRARY, and "probably 100% within 50 years" IS BASICALLY NOTHING MORE THAN A TALKING POINT, FOLLOWED BY PURE EMOTION.

irishmuse
User Rank
Silver
All I hear is emotion
irishmuse   7/30/2013 11:39:04 AM
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Ladies and Gentlemen,

I hear nothing but emotion here.  Classic lines of derision without substance. For example "shit in thier own nest".  Let's try some logic for a moment.

First, the raw data.

Folks the data we have is extremely poor, insufficient in quality to draw such conclusions from. 

The best data we have is satellite data for a relatively short period.  This data is primarily augmented by ground based measurements that for a variety of reasons may be accurate for location, but invalid over time.  The algorithms used to "correct" them over time have no solid basis and we have no statistically valid way of establishing the accuracy of the "correction".  So our best data, is not particularly good over time, and covers a short period of time.

Most of the balance of our data, and all of the longer term data is implied or derived from localized measurments.  Examples are tree rings, ice cores that provide some useful ideas of what may have been happening, are nearly impossible to assign the kind of accuracy we need in short or long term views.

All of the data above has been used with various algorithms that are generally held as privately as possible by the groups doing research.  Some of the software embodiments of these algoriths that came out demonstrated that they produced the same results without regard to the data entered.  In short, these algorithms have no sound scientific or statistical basis.

So, let's review the data;  we have poor data, collected in a variety of methods lacking any reliable method of mutual calibration, manipulated by algorithms with no validation.

Now let's discuss the variables in the various climate models.

We have a wide variety of actors that utilize CO2 in a wide variety of ways.  Nearly all of these actors operate in non-linear fashions, and most of them we have done no substative research into.  So, how much CO2 will be removed from the atmosphere by a particular actor in the ocean at a particular concentration is unknown.  The there are a large number of these actors.  We believe that the oceans are be primary location that CO2 is captured, so this is significant.

So how is all this missing data dealt with in the climate models?  Algorithms have been inserted for them in mass, based on getting the "correct" result.  So, the climate models predict what is expected because they are "corrected" until they do!  Must be a different kind of science than what the rest of us use!

So here is the bottom line.

Bring data, RAW DATA not "corrected" ie. massaged data.

Discuss openly methods used to calibrate and the experimental basis for doing so. 

Bring the experimental basis for the relationships for actors involved in CO2 capture and the experimental basis for inclusion/exclusion of actors from the model. 

Lastly, any model that does not accurately predict past climate behaviour accurately is not worthy of discussion as a predictor.

Without ALL of these, we are not even ready to have a discussion of the science sufficient to draw conclusions.  Without ALL of these, we do not even know what we know.

Currently, our raw data is poor, our use of the data arbritrary, our models faked, and our arguments emotional.  In short, you have every right to believe in man-made climate change, but that belief is NOT scientific, as you have insufficient science.  It is a belief based on faith, in short it is a religious belief. 

The fact it is faith is given away by the statements made.

"the science is settled"  by who?  do you hear these statements in any other field of science?

"If we don't so something NOW it will be to late!"  based on what? and what are the consequences of doing something NOW, nothing is free.

"they are just shitting in their own nest"  Emotional derision and insults.

"But our actions must have SOME effect" probably, but the question is what, and how much?

IN GOD I TRUST!   All Others Bring Data!

Stuart21
User Rank
Silver
Re: GLOBAL WARMING
Stuart21   6/12/2013 1:13:00 PM
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"My doubt is that we on earth are significantly contributing to that warming."

Bob, if that is the case, it is very bad news. The reason being is that AGW is inevitable from our interfering with the historical 'status quo' of the atmosphere; (CO2 up 43% already, probably 100% within 50 years), and when AGW finally does kick in, it will be ON TOP OF your 'natural' global warming.

Hang on to your seats!

Why should the position of so many be 'we must be absolutely sure that a train is coming and it will run over and kill our kids' before we say 'hey kids, don't play on the train line'?

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Continual re-post reinforces pseudo-science bias
CharlesM   6/12/2013 1:02:40 PM
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How much do you get for running it?

Apparently enough eyeballs on ads to justify perennially repeating the lie. Ironically, much of this industry's growth is tied to lower carbon emission technologies. Count how many times you see the word "green" in product blurbs, often with a graphic of a green leaf of some sort. Constituent pollutants (traditional non-greenhouse toxins which can be removed) are not the big problem being addressed.  It's all about carbon emissions, the burning of fossil fuels. This is the problem

Many big polluters and fossil fuel companies, including ExxonMobil, even like to brag about lowering carbon emissions all the while they deny there's any problem at all resulting from GHGs! Why do they spend millions to say they're reducing them??

Stuart21
User Rank
Silver
Re: Continual re-post reinforces pseudo-science bias
Stuart21   6/12/2013 12:30:39 PM
The entire premise of the headline is irrelevant.

Do the proponents of that position (or anybody) have an indefinite pass (from god, perhaps?)  to shit in their own nest? I can assure you that responsiblity for knowingly promoting damaging false theses will be unlimited and indefinite.

Design News (one of my favorite websites, for its normally 'scientific' approach) is discrediting itself, by continually running this long discredited story. How much do you get for running it? 

 

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Continual re-post reinforces pseudo-science bias
CharlesM   6/12/2013 10:05:11 AM
Why does UBM continue to spam out this old anti-science post as a "new" email?  I receive it at least once a month, as I did again today. I understand controversial publicity is still publicity, but this shows an ugly editorial bias that is pro-fossil fuel industry, pro-business as usual, pro-lies, and pro-ignorance. UBM's scientific credibility can't go any less than zero, I guess. So, Congrats on that! You've lost it all unless you refute this post with a factual mea culpa that aligns with real climate science instead of Glenn Beck, Michele Bachmann, and Rush Limbaugh. So far, you're just amid bad company no better than those clowns of scientific integrity.

tech77usa
User Rank
Iron
global warming only part of the equation
tech77usa   6/12/2013 9:44:12 AM
i think we are going to reach a point of unsustainable population growth soon. this is the factor that will doom us eventually. over population will strain an already strained food and water supply system, and, although you can produce enough energy, it won't be affordable to most. we will see world changing starvation, war, and epedemics before we see global warming come to fruitation. society is not currently equipped to deal with over population, except through starvation, war, and epidemics. when we learn to manage our population in a more humane way, we will see alot of the other challanges become more manageable.

greenprinter
User Rank
Iron
it started over 65,000 years ago
greenprinter   6/12/2013 8:50:09 AM
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This cycle of global warming started over 65,000 years ago. The oceans salinity is changing oceans currents will slow down the chilling will start over the ice will come and the process will repeat.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Still NO evidence!!!!!
jeffbiss   5/24/2013 9:47:53 AM
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Really, what is your prolem? Where is any evidence that the science is wrong? There are a lot of points that add to the line implicating human activity to this climate change, not just one point of research. So, it should be easy for a person who claims to be a physicist to provide evidence specifically where something is incorrect.

If you are a physicist, then confront the researchers! Here's a link to New Research Shows Complexity of Global Warming that names names! So, you can contact them and confront them with their ignorance! In fact, if you search sciencedaily.com you'll find a lot of research articles that all name names! You can tell them how far out on a limb they are with their process and procedures!

Rather than bloviating here, what with all your physics knowledge, why not confront these scientists? And keep us informed with your discussions with them. To date, you've provided NOTHING to refute the science behind global warming research and that reveals something about you and your argument.

<<  <  Page 7/54  >  >>
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