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Captain Hybrid

Global Warming: Are the Skeptics Right?

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Philip
User Rank
Iron
Some Refrences
Philip   9/19/2013 2:22:30 AM
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If the WSJ published an article claiming that the Earth was the center of the solar system, would anybody pay much attention ?  This is the equivalant of what the WSJ did by publishing an obviously unscientific claim by 16 "scientists", only two of which had actually published a scientific paper about climate in the last 30 years.  Here is a detailed article by someone who has looked into the credentials of the 16 and and their untrue claims :

http://www.skepticalscience.com/examining-the-latest-climate-denialist-plea-for-

inaction.html

The basic action of CO2 and the positive feedback of water vapor to heat the planet is actually quite simple and should be understood by everyone reading Design News.  The effect of clouds has been shown to be small either way.  Trying to predict the exact rate and pattern of warming is way beyond any of us.

Anyone who has some doubts about Human Caused Global Warming should check "Arguments" at SkepticalScience.com.

If the Deniers of AGW actually had a single valid claim against the over 100 year old science of Global Warming, they would have published a peer reviewed paper, and you would find it in the study of 12000 journal articles by John Cook :

http://theconsensusproject.com/

Jim Powell took the oposite aproach of searching for peer reviiwed articles by the 135 self proclaimed experts writing against AGW :

http://skepticalscience.com/case-against-AGW-part3.html

If you take the time to read the articles and the counter-claims,  I think that you will agree with me that there is not a single valid claim against AGW out there and the editors of WSJ and Forbes etc deserve to be mocked, and the Politicians who deny AGW should be voted out of office.

Phil

 

 

danharres
User Rank
Silver
Re: Emotional Responses to Scientific Skepticism
danharres   9/18/2013 4:40:20 PM
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CharlesM,

You pose the question in a manner that's contrary to scientific study.  Science does not come down on one or the other side of an issue.  Instead, a scientist develops a hypothesis, for example, "Anthropogenic Global Warming is occurring as the result of manmade activity" and then other scientists are free to either agree or disagree.  It is incumbent on each side to make as convincing an argument so that they might persuade those not in agreement.

As an example, when Einstein developed his theory of relativity at the beginning of the 20th century, he presented his work to colleagues at conferences and other professional gatherings.  Many of his contemporaries did not believe his theories.  Rather than scream at them or try to get the New York Times (or whatever the German-language equivalent would be) to write mocking editorials or enlist the help of some rich, undereducated politician (I won't mention any names but his initials are A.G.), Einstein instead chose to develop experiments that would prove his theories correct.  In Einstein's case this involved photographing the location of certain stars during a solar eclipse.

When an interested astronomer decided to make the photographs and thus prove the theory, the results at first seemed to not bear out Einstein's theory.  Rather than "massage" the data, or hide the results, or develop computer models that might show how right he was even though the data didn't agree (okay, there were no computers back then, but whatever) Einstein instead had to bear the humiliation of having developed a seemingly brilliant theory that appeared not to be correct.  Fortunately, a few years later, others were able to capture another solar eclipse on photographs and make more accurate measurements from them.  In the end, Einstein was vindicated.

Regarding your second question, what do I consider the "official doctrine" - when all the AGW crowd is claiming 97% consensus and the government itself claims that AGW is a real thing, I would have to say that the answer is obvious.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: The subject was... ?
CharlesM   9/18/2013 3:34:10 PM
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Thank you for recognizing the point of the article, Thinking_J. I do believe that you're the only one who has made that observation.

Eureka! The actual point of the article was really only about how we should all get along, no matter how outspoken and dangerously wrong many non-climate scientists and engineers are.  How should we react to dangerously wrong news media that keep promoting the same unscientific propaganda over and over?

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Emotional Responses to Scientific Skepticism
CharlesM   9/18/2013 3:20:10 PM
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danharres, can you clarify which side of this issue you are ascribing to the side of science and which to the side of anti-science zealotry? And what do you regard as constituting the "official doctrine" on this issue?

The Designist
User Rank
Gold
Re: Global warming
The Designist   9/18/2013 3:11:02 PM
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Would an atheist reduce his risk of a bad after life by believing in God? When you find that person, then you'll find the same person that buys your 0.5 number you pulled out of thin air.

Fred McGalliard
User Rank
Silver
What?
Fred McGalliard   9/18/2013 10:46:50 AM
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This reminds me of a zombie. It is dead, killed again and again, yet it keeps coming back to life. Is DN that much in need of resurecting such an old argument, without even bothering to refresh the paper? Just let the poor thing die why don't you?

And should anyone be bored enough to read this, we should recall that Gore is an interested novice in the GW. Not a trusted researcher.

Why don't we insist that this get no more play untill the seminal paper is itself re-upped with a more current set of prejudices and silly arguments to refute.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Enough already with the deception
CharlesM   9/18/2013 9:51:52 AM
NO RATINGS
There you go again destroying any remaining shred of journalistic credibility of Charles Murray, DesignNews, and UBM.  I'm going to keep flagging this every time it's spammed anew into my email box as this old discredited piece was again today.

For anyone who cares, please read a wider viewpoint: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/17/climate_change_denial_speak_up_speak_out.html
 

 

danharres
User Rank
Silver
Emotional Responses to Scientific Skepticism
danharres   9/18/2013 9:33:36 AM
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Emotional responses, like those in these blog comments as well as from eminent experts like Al Gore, are nothing new.  In Galileo's time, the science was "settled" regarding the "fact" that the sun revolved around the Earth.  Based on improperly translated Bible passages, the Church was certain that this had to be the case.

Since virtually all universities at the time were funded by the Church, the scientists of the day, most of whom were university professors, knew that they needed to advocate for the official Church version of planetary movement to maintain their lucrative teaching positions.

Poor Galileo and a few other skeptics chose to report what they felt was the truth - the sun didn't actually revolve around the Earth and, in fact, the opposite appeared to be the case.  For this Galileo was sentenced to life in prison, which was subsequently reduced to house arrest for the remainder of his life.

Fortunately, we have evolved to the point where such drastic responses are no longer the case.  Today, the worst that skeptics of official doctrine have to endure is simply mocking and emotional responses.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: All I hear is emotion
William K.   7/30/2013 7:17:25 PM
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Irishmuse, thanks for such an imfomed and rational evaluation, and thanks for repeating my thoughts so very well.

Emotional reations based on uneducated evaluation of uncertain data is often prone to not winding up being the best choice.

And I would add to your statements the fact that for many years prior, some of the loudest voices claiming that something must be done were the same folks screaming about how guilty we were for having a standard of living so much better than some other parts of the world. So one other thing is to consider carefully the source of all this noise and panic.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: The subject was... ?
Charles Murray   7/30/2013 6:49:33 PM
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Thank you for recognizing the point of the article, Thinking_J. I do believe that you're the only one who has made that observation.

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