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Captain Hybrid

Global Warming: Are the Skeptics Right?

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jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Think whatever you want!
jeffbiss   2/6/2012 6:11:10 PM
Watashi,

Post proof that my links are propaganda.

Post proof that the climatologists are corrupted by money.

I have to thank you for illustrating what the real issue is with regards to what drives the "skeptics", and that's the implication of accepting that global warming is real, which refutes free market ideology. This is indicated by your referring to those who accept that human activity is driving global warming, whether actually causing it or exacerbating a natural cycle, as "red".

There are two separate issues here: a) global warming and (b) policies to ameliorate its consequences. The "skeptics" attack global warming science more from the econimc implications than the science itself.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: Alrighty then
jeffbiss   2/6/2012 5:43:09 PM
Charles,

Good question. The actual quote is""the folks who deny scientific facts deserve to be laughed at and scorned." So it's about laughing at and scorning those that deny scientific facts. The answer's in the details. To not agree with an interpretation of data is valid and part of the process. Also, to see fault with gathering data is part of the process. So, it's how the denial is presented, which is what happens all the time in scientific journals.

The problem is that most "skeptics" aren't part of that debate and appear more concerned about protecting their favored ideology with regards to the implications on the economy than acknowledging that global warming is indeed occurring and is driven by human activity.

So, if deniers, or "skeptics", are not going to participate in the scientific process then they should be scorned. Otherwise, we must consider creationism as valid as evolution. The scientific process must have standards.

Watashi
User Rank
Platinum
Re: No insult
Watashi   2/6/2012 5:33:21 PM
I don't usually call out trolls, but what the heck -

Your many posts (this must be your day job), with a multitude of links (propaganda at the ready), use of derogatory terms for those you disagree with, and your 'new' status to the site shows that you are most likely a professional activist who happened to find this blog via web search. You attack the subject of the article based on who picked the article up and the only evidence to refute his claims comes from your links to AGW propaganda sites.

Really - follow the money.  Traditional energy companies have no need to hype the debate. They will make money just as they have always done.  The AGW crowd is the insurgent group seeking to destroy their industry without a shred of evidence that there is an issue that can be addressed.

AGW supporters come in two varieties: Global socialists (commies) that want power and crony capitalists that would sell their mother to make a buck.  As an old "cold warrior" I am well aware of the environmental movement's founding in the 60's after pro communist movements were forced underground.  Not coincidentally, the goals of the two movements are basically the same:  Destroy (over-regulate) the industries of developed nations to gain economic control over them, effectively eliminating their ability to resist external forces.  As they used to say: GREEN is the new RED.

Sorry to the other regular posters on Design News for this rant.  I just couldn't sit by while some of the respected, regular contributors were maligned.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: References
Charles Murray   2/6/2012 5:29:54 PM
NO RATINGS
Jon: Here's a fourth...

"Heaven and Earth: Global Warming, the Missing Science," by Ian Plimer, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Adelaide

Jon Titus
User Rank
Blogger
References
Jon Titus   2/6/2012 5:18:41 PM
At first I figured a response to people who wanted references would simply stoke the fire, but this afternoon I reconsidered.  I recommend three well-written books:

1. Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media, by Patrick J. Michaels.

2. Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years, by S. Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery.

3. Hot Talk Cold Science: Global Warming's Unfinished Debate, revised 2nd ed., by S. Fred Singer.

Each book includes many references to refereed professional journals.  I have read these three books and some of the references, which make scientific sense. I remain skeptical about mankind's effects on any global temperature increases and attribute them to natural and cyclic causes. Of course, other papers and books take different sides in this argument. As far as science goes, the conclusion remains unproven.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Alrighty then
Charles Murray   2/6/2012 5:12:28 PM
NO RATINGS
jeffbiss: Do you agree with the newspaper article statement that those who don't agree should be "laughed at and scorned?" Or do you think that's taking it too far?

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Alrighty then
jeffbiss   2/6/2012 5:09:44 PM
NO RATINGS
Charles,

Thanks for that bio. My problem is still that he alleged without citing support. If there's a big problem with the discussion of global warming, it's making unsubstantiated statements. In my opinion, "skeptics" simply muddy the discussion when they provide no backup, and that adds to the rampant ignorance in America. In fact that ignorance is celebrated in certain segments of our population, and that's a big problem. We can do far better.

j-allen
User Rank
Gold
Re: A Global-Warming Sketpic
j-allen   2/6/2012 5:04:12 PM
NO RATINGS
When I served on the Fire and Rescue Squad, we occasionally got a false alarm.  Still, when the alarm rang, we responded.  most alarms are real and we could not afford to ignore one.

In the case of stratospheric ozone, we did respond and cut back on Freons along with other ozone-eating chemicals.   Of course there is still a "hole" since it takes nature a long time to repair the initial damage. 

Rational peopls look at each alleged problem on the basis of its evicence, not on gut feelings or anger because of some possibly erroneous alert in the past.

Also consider cases where an alarm causes a response that averts the disaster.  does that mean the alarm was false?

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Re: Solar activty
jeffbiss   2/6/2012 5:04:08 PM
NO RATINGS
sensor pro,

For a discussion of how solar activity plays in climate, see www.realclimate.org. Search that site for a number of stories/threads. Also, see Stanford's Solar Center site. They state that "Their bottom line: though the Sun may play some small role, "it is nevertheless much smaller than the estimated radiative forcing due to anthropogenic changes." That is, human activities are the primary factor in global climate change.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Citations?
Charles Murray   2/6/2012 5:02:44 PM
jeffbiss: Jon Titus is indeed a Ph.D. Please note that Jon's original Mark-8 computer is on display at the Smithsonian Institution. See his background below:

Jon Titus holds three college degrees, a BS from Worcester Polytechnic Institute, an MS from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, and PhD from Virginia Polytechnic Institute. He is credited by many people as being the inventor of the first personal computer kit, the Mark-8, which was featured as a construction project on the cover of Radio Electronics magazine in July, 1974. The computer used an Intel 8008 microprocessor chip -- the first 8-bit microprocessor -- and the kit was meant for use by serious electronics hobbyists and experimenters. Jon's original Mark-8 is now in the collection at the Smithsonian Institution. In 2002, Jon received a George R. Stibitz Computer & Communications Pioneer Award from the American Computer Museum in Bozeman, MT, for his development of the Mark-8 hobbyist computer kit.

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