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Captain Hybrid

Global Warming: Are the Skeptics Right?

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jcbond_mi
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Gold
Re: Solar output has been measured
jcbond_mi   4/29/2013 4:54:47 PM
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Search for solar output and global warming and you'll find that yes, researchers have measured the sun's output and have taken that into account. There is alot out there such as this from NASA.


Now we're getting someplace interesting.  I believe this only partially correct.  Up until recently I believe solar activity had been at relatively high point, and ony recently has begun to decrease - something on the order of the past 5 years.  If I recall correctly the last low point was Europe's "Little Ice Age", which was the 16th to 19th century.

I find this piece of the puzzle interesting - and concerning.  The problem with the global warming movement, IMO, is that they discount any possibility of natural causes.  I think that, by comparison, a minor hiccup for the sun is a major problem for us.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Several comments
William K.   4/29/2013 4:51:27 PM
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About anybody dying from carbon dioxide inhalation: That has to be a lie made up to back some fallacios argument. I see quite a few of those lies. And, a while back, I did an experiment just to see what the effect of breathing it would be. After two deep breathes of 90% carbon dioxide I found that I was panting as my body was working to get back to a more normal condition. Nobody could intentionally inhale enough to be damaging unless they had a tank and breathing mask, a setup unavailable to kids. So cross out that "urban legend" lie.

Next, it seems very unlikely that solar energy measurements were accurate enough even just fifty years ago for there to be any means to determine a change.

And about the equilibrium having been established, equilibrium is what you get when a system has stablized, which is what the earth has seen as the avarage temperature did not vary a lot over a whole bunch of years.

Besides all of that, those same people who started screaming so loud about global warming are the same ones who for years have been complainng about how much better some countries are living than other countries. They were also advocating the redistribution of wealth, by other names, of course, based on the thinking that if we are that much better off, we must somehow be moraly wrong. The fact is that while all people may be created equal, ( with equal rights, at least), does not in any way mean that they will stay equal in their standard of living. And that is not my fault, you see.

jcbond_mi
User Rank
Gold
Re: Global warming
jcbond_mi   4/29/2013 4:45:06 PM
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 I attacked your grammar after I attacked your idiotic question (which is not the same thing as calling you an idiot--I am not doing that, so please don't get confused).  All of your grade school teachers should have attacked any such misuse. The word "at" is redundant. Would you say "Where are my keys at"?  Not a federal offense, of course, but it sounds funny and doesn't help your case to argue bad science and then write like a fourth-grader.


I believe there is a saying about arguing with people like you, so I will just end this with "good luck with all that".

shrimper53
User Rank
Gold
Re: " CO2 is extremely toxic..."
shrimper53   4/29/2013 4:33:25 PM
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Just remember .... C02 is PLANT FOOD!

Amclaussen
User Rank
Platinum
Re: " CO2 is extremely toxic..."
Amclaussen   4/29/2013 4:29:38 PM
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Citing Evo1: "but at higher levels (CO2)it is in fact extremely toxic and does lead to several deaths every year, particularly in children..." with due respect, that kind of affirmation is plainly wrong. CO2 is NOT toxic per se, it is the displacement of O2 by excess CO2 that can produce Hipoxia in a closed, overcrowded room. but CO2 is NOT a poison as CO (Carbon Monoxide) that is the one that is poisonous because it causes hemoglobin to become unable to carry Oxygen.

Your assumption that "CO2 does lead to several deaths every year, particularly in children..." is completely false as there is absolutely no evidence of children deaths caused specifically by CO2 inhalation in ventilated spaces.

You would be extremely surprised to know that CO2 has even been purposefully used in the manufacture of Carbogen, a mixture of Oxygen AND CO2, because the CO2 causes the body to try to battle suffocation and stimulates the recovery when the individual has suffered poisoning by Carbon Monoxide.  It is interesting that Carbogen mixtures for asphyxia treatment include a full 5% of CO" and 95% Oxygen, when the normal atmospheric content of CO2 is well under 400 parts per million, volume... go figure!  Only in densely packed, closed, underventilated  spaces, it can become suffocating, but not poisonous. (ten times the normal atmospheric concentration is commonly reached).

Those are the kind of false claims that cloud polemic subject discussion and prevent a clear understanding of the true phenomena (if it happens).

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Has anybody actually measured the heat input?
CharlesM   4/29/2013 4:19:36 PM
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William K, all of those issues are well understood and your assertions are hilariously wrong. Where do you get that we've reached equilibrium? 0.01%?? More CO2 is needed???

Solar output is very well known and it has slightly decreased, not increased. The effect of adding 50% more CO2 (excess), which we've done since the start of the industrial age through the burning of fossil fuels (and also deforestation), is to upset the energy equilibrium by holding more solar radiation energy in the atmosphere, not the opposite.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Solar output has been measured
jeffbiss   4/29/2013 4:10:19 PM
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William,


Search for solar output and global warming and you'll find that yes, researchers have measured the sun's output and have taken that into account. There is alot out there such as this from NASA.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Global warming
CharlesM   4/29/2013 4:06:34 PM
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I attacked your grammar after I attacked your idiotic question (which is not the same thing as calling you an idiot--I am not doing that, so please don't get confused).  All of your grade school teachers should have attacked any such misuse. The word "at" is redundant. Would you say "Where are my keys at"?  Not a federal offense, of course, but it sounds funny and doesn't help your case to argue bad science and then write like a fourth-grader.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Cite "obvious patterns"
jeffbiss   4/29/2013 4:05:59 PM
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Amclaussen,


Choosing to not cite any examples of wrong conclusions drawn from "obvious patterns" is poor science! Stick to the subject and post where global warming science is wrong, thus supporting your concern for poor discussion on the part of the anti-denier side.

So, your job is to peruse the published literature to show that there are indeed two sides to this debate. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that the deniers don't like are the implications that anthropogenic global wamring poses, that our behavior can produce negative consequences that therefore refutes both religious theologies and economic ideologies that claim that a) the universe was crated expressly for our use and therefore cannot fail, per god's plan, (b) the market solves all problems, or (c) we are too insignificant to affect an entire planet.

Their problem is not with the science per se, but with the implications of that science.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Deniers are polarizing!
jeffbiss   4/29/2013 3:57:45 PM
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Amclaussen,

Sorry, but any polarization that you perceive is due to the deniers simply not accepting data. There aren't two sides with regards to global warming as the deniers who have nothing to back their denial up with don't count.

The only example of bad research is seen when a person either performs research that contradicts another's or writes to the publication to present his or her refutation to published research.

Your complaint is wholly with the denier side.

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