Your editorial on the decline of engineering degrees earned by U.S. students (DN MYVIEW "Blame it on the Y Chromosome" http://rbi.ims.ca/4391-503) concludes that the "real point" is that there is a need to encourage both males and females to pursue engineering careers. Like you, I graduated with a BSME when demand was high and placement was nearly 100 percent. I suggest that the law of supply and demand is in fact coming into play. With a lower demand comes a lower supply. With more engineering degrees where will these graduates work? The possibilities of alternate energy sources, climate change effects, etc., are thrown out as interesting topics but unless there is real demand for engineering types there is no reason to get an engineering degree—unless, of course, a person would like to work at FedEx or deliver pizzas!
Bruce B. Myers, P.E., Mechanicsburg, PA
MORALE ISN'T JUST LOW, IT SUCKS
I do believe that a good portion of the problem is due to the disillusionment of the existing engineering pool. Most engineers that I know, myself included, love the engineering part of the work. What makes it difficult to come to work every day is the corporate side of the job. In the corporate environment, the lack of gratitude and the constant threat of outsourcing are demoralizing. I tell anyone interested in engineering to rethink their goals and see if something else out there fits their personality. Strive for something that gives you more control of your work life as being a part of the corporate machine has absolutely no security whatsoever.
Bill Rodgers, Farmington, MO
LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE
Your article on male/female engineers was way too narrow. Last Spring I was requested by the University of Southern California to sit in on a panel to be interviewed by graduate engineers. I was the representative entrepreneur on the panel. Of the maybe 35 students in attendance three were Caucasian, the rest Asian or Indian (from India). There were more females than Caucasian males. So while Harvard President Lawrence Summers is proof that the politically correct will devour their own, explain why the female Asian and Indian students outperform the so-called male bias in this country.
Explain why in mostly white, Orange County, CA, the Asian students outperform the Caucasian students in high school? I'm not complaining about the results, just stating the facts. In fact we should be proud that these students are rising to the top in the sciences and will be the leaders in the next jump in technology. I don't know why it is that the Asian and Indian nationalities do better in the sciences than the white male but I am thankful they are in this country to pursue their dream. We will all be better off for it. As for the politically correct with their "junk science" and "revisionist history," they can become the vocal "activists" or supersizers of the future.
Bob Kozlowski, Garden Grove, CA
NOT WORTH THE EFFORT
When an electrician can make more than an EE at the same company, why would anyone want to spend five years in school studying for an engineering degree instead of enjoying life? The real killer as far as I am concerned is that I make $25K less than I did 15 years ago. Companies use us to fix their problems then boot us. They do this to avoid paying contract engineers $100-150/hr.
My years of education outnumber those of a physician—if you add up all the training courses along the way. If I had the whole thing to do over, I would show up at my office at 9:00 a.m., listen to people breathe, and then send them to a specialist. Twenty patients a day at up to $45 a pop. What a gig.
Roy M. Metzger, Geneva, IN
SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY?
I enjoyed your editorial, and I share your concern about the decline in engineering graduates in the U.S. I have worked for a number of years to encourage more minorities and women to enter technical professions (first as president of Minds for Progress Inc., and in recent years as a volunteer promoting space careers). I view this as an opportunity to address the issues you raised in your editorial.
I think part of the problem in the recent decline in engineering enrollments is all the publicity about outsourcing of high-tech jobs to India and China. Kids come up to me after my presentations on space careers and ask why should they work hard to get an engineering degree only to see the job disappear to someone in India who will work for less.
It is hard to answer this question when a recent article projects that in a few years 30 percent of all IT jobs will be outsourced to Asia.I would like to see you address this issue in a future editorial.
Earle Kyle, Rochester, NY
AND MORE RESPONSES FOR "BLAME IT ON THE Y CHROMOSOME"...
As a senior engineer who was involved in recruiting and hiring engineers beginning in early 1970's, it continues to amaze me how much magazine space is devoted to the issue of females in engineering. I believe the big problem for U.S. Industry is the drop in total engineers entering the profession. If you analyze the current male graduates you will also see an increase in the amount of foreign engineers. This means the amount of U.S. male engineers is dropping even faster than it appears.
The root cause I believe is linked to the American business model which looks at short term results. In the recessions of the 1970's and 1980's and the bust of the Internet craze the engineers were cut severely. When engineers with PhD's and MS degrees are walking the street or flipping hamburgers it sends a strong message to the next generation that engineering is a risky profession. As our world grows smaller and the U.S. dominance of manufacturing keeps eroding I don't see any easy answers.
I agree that major challenges lie ahead for engineers to solve on a global basis. I see the U.S. engineers being only a part of the solution in the future as other countries move into position to become significant contributors to technological solutions.
Dick Hanson, DN reader
When corporations get rid of engineers who are about to send their offspring to college, the students most likely will not take up engineering. Abuse your employees, and see if their children will want to work for you. The industry has done this to themselves. It is just another one of the mistakes America has made.
The company I work for has both a woman president and VP of engineering. I am not one to stand in the way of women officially taking over the world. The job has been killing us men prematurely for centuries. I look forward to producing a line of united stroller/golf bags for future fathers. Since men were not genetically engineered to be directly supervised by women 24/7, it will take some adjustment for many of them.
Tom Cater, DN readerI generally enjoy your well thought out columns anyway, but the April 4 one was really terrific…an insight that I'll bet would open a lot of eyes. Thanks for sharing, and I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph! Oh…despite the name, I'm male, and got my BS-ME in 1986, so at least I'm not part of the problem…Keep up the good work!
Jamie Palmer, DN reader
I just read your article and agree with you 100%. Definitely something engineers all need to consider.
Looks like ’86 when I received my degree was the high water mark.However I am left to question whether the reduction in engineering or degrees in any field is due not only to interest in a subject but market forces. During my 19 year engineering career I have been in need to job search several times…and it has always been difficult.
If corporations are more willing to hire experienced immigrant engineers than newly minted BSMEs from our own colleges this would certainly drive down the available job pool for new graduates … therefore they select other fields. (like finance during the bubble). Similarly, with all the offshore sourcing of technology jobs are there really abundant available engineering jobs available for new graduates? I suspect that one of the reasons for the reduction in engineering graduates is the availability of good jobs and salaries available compared to other fields.
Now for us engineers like myself. AS degree, BS degree and MS degree all done nights and I had to take a 10% decrease in pay to stay employed. Meanwhile some CEO to go unnamed just got a bonus up to 800K from 400K the year previous. I would not recommend engineering to anyone who is still alive.
Drew Candelora, Sr. Project Manager
I just finished reading your opinion on Lawrence Summers comments. It is interesting that you have blamed our lack of engineering graduates on men. I suggest the blame be put on employers.
There is a significant difference in the way men and women pursue education and careers. Over the last 40 years there has been a concerted effort at every level of education to increase involvement of women in historically male dominated courses. The funny thing about how men and women select careers, is based on motivational factors. It is not uncommon for a man to notice that a women in college is pursuing her Mrs., but men are always in college to pursue a career. Careers in engineering and science in the heyday of the 60's resulted in significant upward mobility, meaning they paid well. Engineers used to live in the neighborhoods with Lawyers and Doctors, today we struggle to stay in the neighborhoods of the average manager. With outsourcing and perpetual use of engineers as development "tooling", men have determined that the career path is no longer lucrative, thereby resulting in our degree fall off. Why would you want to go through the grueling pace of engineering school while the pre law and business students get drunk every night? We see that engineers end up working for the guys that partied throughout college. Men understand that wages are falling behind and we choose other careers. Why is it that most of the students in MBA programs are male engineers, we are chasing the money. Men understand one thing to be successful with the opposite sex (the real motivation behind male activity), we need to provide and in American society it is very difficult to provide the life style American women desire. Thank you Gucci, Life Styles of the Rich and Famous, and MTV Cribs! So for men to be successful we need careers that pay and engineering doesn't. That is the problem.
Victor Evjen, DN reader
Fred Geck, DN reader
As you are probably well aware there are a number of reason for this decline including:
1. The growing disparity in the lifetime earning potential for engineers. As a result potential engineering candidates are electing to pursue fields of study in majors that prepare them for careers in higher paying fields like law, finance, and business.
2. Our public schools continue to lag behind in promoting math and sciences and development of GATE students.
3. Large influx of foreign educated engineers working on a temporary status long term.
4. More work is being out sourced to foreign counties so that companies can better control product development costs.
It would be interesting to overlay points 3 and 4 on your graph to see if there really is a headcount decline or just a redistribution in market.
Don Marshall, DN reader
Engineering???????? Why would any gender consider this field is the real question? I know more firemen, police officers, nurses, and railroad employees for example that are all making 6 figures with no problem and most of them have never attended college (except for the nurses). They all have exceptional benefits, great job security, and even get to retire with nice fat pensions while they are young!
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